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David Ho

Is everyone aware that flights are (often much) cheaper than trains in Europe because aviation fuel isn't taxed?

15 October at 10:27 | Open on mastodon.world
14 comments
🌈☔🌦️🍄

@davidho Yeah, it's been a struggle with no change sadly. :(

15 October at 10:30 | Open on chaos.social
Valentin Sawadski

@davidho Sadly, yes. It is claimed that this is to make flying affordable for everyone. A blatant lie as globally only the top 10% ever set foot in a plane.

15 October at 10:30 | Open on mastodon.social
Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE

@davidho There's another difference.

Trains require a vast land take and tens of thousands of miles of track (in the EU, to pick as an example) and signalling to maintain. OK, so ATC infrastructure isn't trivial, but it needs considerably less land take and hardware on the ground to get a plane from one end of the journey to the other than it does a train. (And, OK, yes, when you do get to the end an airport is typically rather larger than a railway station.)

Now ... these differences are obvious, but what I don't know is how that translates into numbers and affects fares.

@davidho There's another difference.

Trains require a vast land take and tens of thousands of miles of track (in the EU, to pick as an example) and signalling to maintain. OK, so ATC infrastructure isn't trivial, but it needs considerably less land take and hardware on the ground to get a plane from one end of the journey to the other than it does a train. (And, OK, yes, when you do get to the end an airport is typically rather larger than a railway station.)

15 October at 10:37 | Open on c.im
Manegiste Flou ⏚ (he/him)

@TimWardCam @davidho if they had to pay for the land take INCLUDING the infrastructure to get to/from there, that would be fairer.

And tracks can be used for local trafic.

15 October at 10:57 | Open on mamot.fr
robb

@davidho also international plane tickets have no VAT on them when issued in Germany while train tickets have 7% (used to be 19% before 2020!)

15 October at 10:48 | Open on mastodon.social
národní prase
@dlx @davidho what the fuck

shouldn't the greendeal clowns start by fixing this before messing with anything else
15 October at 10:55 | Open on piggo.space
MurmeltHier

@davidho

Yes... and if I remember correctly there were other additional 'hidden' subventions that fuel this horrific gap. It's almost similar to cow milk vs oat milk tax wise...(in Germany at least)

15 October at 10:50 | Open on climatejustice.social
Mark

@davidho Thanks, I needed another thing to be angry about.

So flying within EU --> no carbon tax. But importing goods into EU --> carbon tax wired.com/story/eu-carbon-tax/

We need a global carbon fee and dividend plan. No exceptions; no free ride.

#CBAM #CarbonTax #CarbonFeeAndDividend #CarbonPricing #ClimateAction #ClimatePolicy

15 October at 10:52 | Open on universeodon.com
pa27

@davidho And also, because of the insane way the rail system works in the UK...

15 October at 10:58 | Open on mastodon.social
WERNERPRISE° — Thomas Werner

@davidho

And now in Hamburg, Germany, several carriers protest and reduce flights because the airport has announced to raise fares (which would result in € 2,30 more per person, mind you).

15 October at 11:08 | Open on mastodon.bits-und-baeume.org
Svavar

There is also a lack of high-speed services connecting major cities across the block, especially east to west.

They're only just about to start an 8 hour daily direct high-speed service between Paris and Berlin*.

I ran into this during the NATS debacle in the UK last year and had to get back to the UK from Prague. There were no viable train options from Prague and I ended up flying to Paris via Munich and taking trains to Dieppe and then a ferry to the UK.

* dw.com/en/deutsche-bahn-new-tr

@davidho

There is also a lack of high-speed services connecting major cities across the block, especially east to west.

They're only just about to start an 8 hour daily direct high-speed service between Paris and Berlin*.

I ran into this during the NATS debacle in the UK last year and had to get back to the UK from Prague. There were no viable train options from Prague and I ended up flying to Paris via Munich and taking trains to Dieppe and then a ferry to the UK.

15 October at 11:12 | Open on mstdn.social
Disco3000

@davidho yes, and also there is no good interconnection between railways cross borders, which makes it even more expensive. But still CEOs like the one from Lufthansa are crying about the high prices 🤷🏻‍♂️

15 October at 11:15 | Open on climatejustice.social
mc.fly

@davidho That's not the only reason but a big reason.

15 October at 11:28 | Open on milliways.social
Rosco

@davidho Sadly carpooling remains the cheapest and most available mode of transport, would be great if rail catch up.

15 October at 11:34 | Open on toot.community
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