@kissane I agree with that And each of us also encounters others who make it clear that the norm refusal we care about isn't, as far as they're concerned, worth caring about. Sometimes it's said explicitly; sometimes it's implicit but still apparent in what they say.

That can be stressful too, with enough scale and repetition. It's not something I think can be eliminated in wide discussions, for various reasons, but it's worth remembering (esp. when my own posts might heighten that feeling).