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Johannes Ernst

We are making a big mistake in the #Fediverse when we ask people to sign up for Mastodon.

The end user product is not Mastodon. The end user product is a specific Mastodon instance.

We should ask them to sign up to a specific instance (preferably one that would match their values in the moderation they do, their funding model, their accountability ...)

After all, their relationship is with their server operator, not the open-source project. And lots of bad experiences would be avoided IMHO.

17 August at 21:27 | Open on j12t.social
7 comments
damon
@j12t

You started out strong but then went left. The big mistake is having people sign up just for #Mastodon in the first place when there’s others that a better suited. We need to educate current users of #fediverse so that they can go out to share information and be better equipped to make recommendations and suggestions
17 August at 21:37 | Open on social.wedistribute.org
Johannes Ernst

@damon Your point is a different point than the one I try to make in a very short post.

Your point: use different software.
My point: choose an instance, not software.

17 August at 21:39 | Open on j12t.social
ShadSterling

@j12t @damon AFAIK we still don’t have good enough instance-choosing tools

(We also don’t have good enough old-post-finding tools, or I would link to one of my old posts about what those tools need to do)

17 August at 21:48 | Open on mastodon.social
Johannes Ernst

@ShadSterling @damon I think we need to get to the point where each instance operator communicates directly with their prospective user where their prospective users are likely going to hang out. Say: libraries for instances focused on literature, or furry conferences for instances focused on furries. Avenues through something like joinmastodon.org (which are software-focused) should be secondary at best.

17 August at 21:56 | Open on j12t.social
ShadSterling

@j12t @damon choosing an instance specific to one of the many subjects that interest me is contrary to how I relate to those communities. I’m not here for a community bulletin board that allows crossposting, I think we’d need a different interaction paradigm for me to want community features, and it wouldn’t involve tying my whole fediverse identity to a single community. What’s supposed to happen if I joined my hometown library’s instance and then moved away?

17 August at 23:25 | Open on mastodon.social
Johannes Ernst

@ShadSterling @damon We need to get to identities that aren't tethered to particular instances. Various approaches have been discussed, all more or less valid IMHO, we just need to get them implemented.

Then, if you can log into @ShadSterling with myself@shadsterling.com or shadsterling@myidprovider.com, is your concern still valid?

17 August at 23:30 | Open on j12t.social
Jupiter Rowland
@Johannes Ernst
We need to get to identities that aren't tethered to particular instances. Various approaches have been discussed, all more or less valid IMHO, we just need to get them implemented.

We have had one working implementation for 13 years now. In the Fediverse. In stuff that's federated with Mastodon.

@Mike Macgirvin 🖥️, creator of Friendica (2010), creator of Hubzilla (2015), creator and maintainer of the streams repository (2021) and, most recently, creator and maintainer of Forte (all four are being actively maintained, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon), invented the concept of nomadic identity in 2011.

The same year, he implemented it in his own Zot protocol. Zot came to use first in 2012 in a Friendica fork named Red, later the Red Matrix, which became Hubzilla in 2015. Hubzilla still uses the latest stable version of the Zot protocol that's still called Zot. Everything that Mike did since 2012, with the exception of the first Osada from 2018, featured nomadic identity, including (streams) which is based on an "offspring" of Zot called Nomad.

I'm writing to you from a Hubzilla channel that simultaneously resides on two server instances. Not in the shape of a dumb copy, but in the shape of a real-time, bidirectional, live, hot backup.

It's basically what Bluesky has claimed to be a revolutionary new and never-done-before feature in the AT protocol, only that a) it's even more advanced, b) it's older than Bluesky, c) it has been proven to actually work in daily use, and d) it is in daily use.

Right now, Mike is working on implementing nomadic identity using only ActivityPub, specifically FEP-ef61. Even this has advanced beyond theoretical. (streams) has it implemented already. All channels created on accounts that were registered on versions 24.07.20 and newer are made compatible with nomadic ActivityPub. I have two such channels, although neither has a clone yet.

In fact, it could be that at least Forte, which is in a very early stage right now, will have Nomad and maybe even support for Zot6 removed and go nomadic using only ActivityPub. Mike said he wants to sunset Nomad and Zot6 once nomadic identity via ActivityPub is ready for prime time.

@silverpill is working closely together with Mike to implement nomadic identity via ActivityPub on the Fediverse microblogging project Mitra. It has taken the switch to nomadic ActivityPub itself.

Just because Mastodon doesn't have it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

CC: @ShadSterling @damon

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mitra #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #FEP_ef61 #NomadicIdentity
@Johannes Ernst
We need to get to identities that aren't tethered to particular instances. Various approaches have been discussed, all more or less valid IMHO, we just need to get them implemented.

We have had one working implementation for 13 years now. In the Fediverse. In stuff that's federated with Mastodon.
18 August at 6:40 | Open on hub.netzgemeinde.eu
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