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Charlie Stross

@graydon @dr2chase @isaackuo Yup. Another thing: I think we're going to see the end of standardized uniforms/rank insignia, sooner rather than later. We've already seen the end of officers in braid and distinctive uniforms on the battlefield (snipers) but this is going to be orders of magnitude worse.

15 comments
Isaac Ji Kuo

@cstross @graydon @dr2chase

I don't think we're going to get rid of uniforms. The potential benefits of trying to pretend to be local civilians are not going to be great when you've got a helmet, weapon, heavy backpack full of stuff, night-vision equipment, etc ...

Charlie Stross

@isaackuo @graydon @dr2chase We're not going to get rid of mil-spec clothing, armour, and equipment: what's going to go is a consistent "uniform" appearance. (I have speculated, for example, about the ease of designing a drone with swastika-seeking firmware …)

Isaac Ji Kuo replied to Charlie

@cstross @graydon @dr2chase

Well, it's certainly possible to try and visually break up the "standard" appearance of your helmet or service rifle. But a uniform already looks really different all the time just from the movement of limbs and different angles.

Personally, I like to ponder audio sensing (with hidden ground based sensors). Disguising the clinking of your rifle isn't going to be so easy.

Philippa Cowderoy

@isaackuo @cstross @graydon @dr2chase If you're an evil fucker then it depends on whose civilians you're trying to pretend to be: you'd be an irregular and thus not protected by most of the laws of warfare, but your opponent's false positives amongst their own population will be a thing.

Plus the helmet's probably about to be a lot less useful and light, stowable weapons are still a thing when you're not on anti-armour duty. Given you're probably recon...

Isaac Ji Kuo replied to Philippa

@flippac @cstross @graydon @dr2chase

There are 2+ wars currently going on which make me rather cynical about how evil some combatants are willing to be, and whether or not something being a war crime is a deal killer.

Philippa Cowderoy replied to Isaac Ji Kuo

@isaackuo @cstross @graydon @dr2chase Well yeah (it's pretty clear that other players who like to be thought of as less evil often prefer to see it as "did we get caught?" too).

But fundamentally the whole idea of visibly-a-uniform is to separate regulars (the ones in obvious uniform) from civilians (supposed not to be fair game) and irregulars ("fair game" for worse treatment because they threaten the distinction, but also not uncommon: a lot of important actions in WW2 were achieved by allied irregulars). If the whole concept is under threat by military developments as well as political ones (one of the combatants you're referring to has been actively eroding it for decades where they are), it's worth noting the transition because it means we're headed somewhere that nobody could realistically sustain it when they're engaged in genuine defence.

@isaackuo @cstross @graydon @dr2chase Well yeah (it's pretty clear that other players who like to be thought of as less evil often prefer to see it as "did we get caught?" too).

But fundamentally the whole idea of visibly-a-uniform is to separate regulars (the ones in obvious uniform) from civilians (supposed not to be fair game) and irregulars ("fair game" for worse treatment because they threaten the distinction, but also not uncommon: a lot of important actions in WW2 were achieved by allied irregulars)....

Walter van Holst

@dymaxion @cstross @graydon @dr2chase @isaackuo Not seeing Russia adhering to the Geneva Conventions very much now.

pettter replied to Walter van Holst

@whvholst Just out of curiosity: Who do you see who _is_ adhering to the Geneva Conventions? @dymaxion @cstross @graydon @dr2chase @isaackuo

Walter van Holst replied to pettter

@pettter @dymaxion @cstross @graydon @dr2chase @isaackuo I don't think either party is fully adhering. I also do think there are glaring violation to them by Russia that are orders of magnitude worse than Ukraine's. Then there's also the Genocide Convention that is also clearly being violated by Russia and not by Ukraine. So this is a "Both sides are not equally bad" situation.

pettter replied to Walter van Holst

@whvholst I wasn't talking about "both sides", I was more talking globally. @dymaxion @cstross @graydon @dr2chase @isaackuo

Walter van Holst replied to pettter

@pettter @dymaxion @cstross @graydon @dr2chase @isaackuo I think the Falklands War was the last one that may have been more or less in adherence to the Geneva Conventions, but I don't think any of the more recent ones ever was.

Eleanor Saitta replied to Walter van Holst

@whvholst
They also don't want to make it trivial for the conscripts they're pouring into the meat grinder to defect.
@cstross @graydon @dr2chase @isaackuo

Walter van Holst replied to Eleanor

@dymaxion @cstross @graydon @dr2chase @isaackuo There's also the time-tested use of barrier troops shooting anyone who appears to be retreating...

Billy Smith

@cstross @graydon @dr2chase @isaackuo

This happened in Africa during the boer war, where the Scottish regiments were always being commanded by English officers, who were presented with a very bright white horse as a "token of respect" from the regiment... :D

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