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We can't have parachutes, pilots will just fly recklessly. We can't have seat belts; they'll just cause more car accidents. We can't water the plants, they'll just grow dependent on water. We can't have unconditional basic income, people will just stop working. ALL OF THESE CLAIMS ARE STUPID 24 comments
 @scottsantens but the last one says a lot about the work ethic of those who make it. It's very informative.  @scottsantens with all due respect, there is a major non-sequitor that last statement, and you know it: as a solitary no-dependents recipient of now 'sufficient' BI, my escape from greed-infested IT sweatshops was finally possible, and I jumped at the opportunity. A Living Wage experiment in an Asian factory found most staff ran away, back home to the hills after just the first paycheque! UBI absolutely will see people stop working at shit jobs, many of which are vital service-industry tasks. I think I've lost your train of thought. There is some sense in paying people not to work just as we pay farmers not to grow crops and pay windfarms a premium when the wind doesn't blow. Our way of life depends on exploitation. Has for centuries. That we say we "make money" tells a lot: making money is illegal unless you are a mint! You can only TAKE money, from future-you, from someone else, a neighbour or a third-world family, or even just a boss proxying for all three. @gnate I have prior expertise with OP, but keep in mind these essential services are already straining their price point, and yes, I'd hope UBI would not be the Ontario model that clawed back any income and punished families for staying together. There's a chance a teen might serve coffee for that same wage as always, maybe even a bit less, just for extra $, but would matrons still clean office and mall toilets? Would you? @gnate just as profits cannot grow forever, neither can wages. I mean look at Lira Pesos and Yen! You want milk prices given in exponent notation? $2.0e06? It's like Einstein said 80 years ago, industrial humanity produces for profit, not for use. @teledyn I'm no economics expert (or even well-informed student), but my impression is that if wages and inflation rise together, that's a reflection of a fixed (abstract?) value. How much effect does altering extreme wealth inequality have on that dynamic? Wealth distribution is a problem globally, of course, and quite visible in the US, with 40+ years of wage stagnation, as a constantly growing portion of wealth goes those accumulating it for its own sake.  This is true. Our civilisation is not viable. So stop moaning about its collapse ๐ Can you say "externalized costs"? And then there's #Piketty's infamous r>g @teledyn @scottsantens If only there was motivation to work on solutions for getting workers out of labor-intensive jobs instead of taking artists out of creating art. @scottsantens I was a community college professor for thirty years. I worked because I was doing valuable work. I did not work because I got paid. I got paid FOR doing good work. Money never motivated me, and most teachers feel the same way. Itโs the administrators who are driven by money because of the obscene and disproportionate amounts they donโt earn, just like CEOs. The fourth claim is utter bullshit.  I did that job for a decade, too, and god, it's a real soul crusher. I got paid for work, but none of it was ever good. I did about two and a half jobs for one terrible salary, spent a lot of time feeling like an utter failure, and I'm a lot happier person for having left it. It's an incredibly difficult job and I have nothing but respect for the people who do it, because schools will try and crush you flat. @mav @scottsantens I understand and respect your experiences. Everything was good for me until approximately the last 5-10 years. I became depressed, suicidal, and had to get a lawyer. Time to leave, and I did so with no regrets 2.5 years ago.  @scottsantens Every study I've read about UBI has had good results. Healthcare costs went down because people were able to eat better, and were able to access healthcare services earlier and have better and cheaper outcomes because of it. Fewer homeless people remained homeless, adding to the stability of their lives which contributed to their health and job security. People kept working, missing fewer days of work. People were more entrepreneurial and so actually managed to create jobs. |
Gregory's Server
@scottsantens TBH, while probably true, I think we should have UBI regardless, especially as human work becomes obsolete.