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Dr. Quadragon ❌'s posts Post Back to profile
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Dr. Quadragon ❌

@mittorn Allowing reference as reply, gosh darn it.

Do I have to reiterate everything in every post?

@BigFoxBoss @mo

29 May 2024 at 17:11 | Open on mastodon.ml
21 comments
mittorn replied to Dr. Quadragon ❌

@drq @BigFoxBoss @mo you asked for multiple entities in replyTo, not references and said that you do not want references (i do not want to search this post in so big thread now)

29 May 2024 at 17:13 | Open on masturbated.one
Dr. Quadragon ❌ replied to mittorn
mittorn replied to Dr. Quadragon ❌

@drq @BigFoxBoss @mo but it is not just a reference, but graph connection. And you asked to use not just single-root directional tree, so you wanted to change main graph

29 May 2024 at 17:14 | Open on masturbated.one
Dr. Quadragon ❌ replied to mittorn

@mittorn How is it "not just a reference"?

It points to a previous point in conversation, semantically linking it with the current one. Which is almost textbook definition of a reference.

@BigFoxBoss @mo

29 May 2024 at 17:18 | Open on mastodon.ml
mittorn replied to Dr. Quadragon ❌

@drq @BigFoxBoss @mo it is not just a reference, it is point by which user finds the thread and gets notifications and replies

29 May 2024 at 17:20 | Open on masturbated.one
Dr. Quadragon ❌ replied to mittorn

@mittorn That's what all references are for: finding stuff.

@BigFoxBoss @mo

29 May 2024 at 17:22 | Open on mastodon.ml
mittorn replied to Dr. Quadragon ❌

@drq @BigFoxBoss @mo but we use this references to build the thread. So changing it's semantic will change thread structure with all issues we discussed above

29 May 2024 at 17:23 | Open on masturbated.one
Dr. Quadragon ❌ replied to mittorn

@mittorn I don't really want to change its *semantic*. Reply is a reply.

But I do want to change it to be handled more naturally, more akin to how actual people converse. We generally don't reply to each person separately, if we're in group conversation (that would be a pain), and the Fedverse is one huge worldwide gangbang of group conversation, and that's what I like about it, and it's also why I am frustrated with the current tree model as it is.

Also, what we're doing here is basically writing organizing notes. So there's a possiblilty for "the Obsidian effect", where you build a graph of every note you have and then find a point or a place on a graph every note converges to, and that's where you start getting new ideas. I want this, but on the global and collective scale.

Of course, I know that this is wild speculation. Do you think I don't know that it will be a demanding change, technically? Come on. Give me *some* fucking credit.

@BigFoxBoss @mo

@mittorn I don't really want to change its *semantic*. Reply is a reply.

But I do want to change it to be handled more naturally, more akin to how actual people converse. We generally don't reply to each person separately, if we're in group conversation (that would be a pain), and the Fedverse is one huge worldwide gangbang of group conversation, and that's what I like about it, and it's also why I am frustrated with the current tree model as it is.

29 May 2024 at 17:40 | Open on mastodon.ml
BigFoxBoss replied to Dr. Quadragon ❌

@drq @mittorn @mo
> handled more naturally, more akin to how actual people converse

So, you want something which is more like a basic group chat or offtopic forum? AP is not a chat platform by design :blobfoxthinkgoogly:

> what we're doing here is basically writing organizing notes [...] that's where you start getting new ideas. I want this, but on the global and collective scale

Obsidian was made specifically for that purpose. Fedi was not. Fedi is a social network, not a notekeeping protocol. I don't know why you would want to use a literal "gangbang of group conversation" as a note keeping platform. It's like throwing all your notes on the floor claiming they are organized, all while you would need to reread them all the time you'd need to find anything useful.

@drq @mittorn @mo
> handled more naturally, more akin to how actual people converse

So, you want something which is more like a basic group chat or offtopic forum? AP is not a chat platform by design :blobfoxthinkgoogly:

> what we're doing here is basically writing organizing notes [...] that's where you start getting new ideas. I want this, but on the global and collective scale

29 May 2024 at 17:47 | Open on masturbated.one
Dr. Quadragon ❌ replied to BigFoxBoss

@BigFoxBoss Every social network deals with note keeping, and note sharing. And they *are* organized, somehow. Could as well be organized differently.

@mittorn @mo

29 May 2024 at 17:50 | Open on mastodon.ml
BigFoxBoss replied to Dr. Quadragon ❌

@drq @mittorn @mo
Social network deals with social networking and exchanges (useless or not), not keeping something safe or acsessible. Social networks are disposable by design.
Try to scroll through someone's garbage meme page to find something useful they said ages ago.

29 May 2024 at 17:52 | Open on masturbated.one
Dr. Quadragon ❌ replied to BigFoxBoss

@BigFoxBoss

> Social networks are disposable by design.

I disagree

> Try to scroll through someone's garbage meme page to find something useful they said ages ago.

That's archive organization issue, not the social network paradigm issue.

@mittorn @mo

29 May 2024 at 17:56 | Open on mastodon.ml
BigFoxBoss replied to Dr. Quadragon ❌

@drq @mittorn @mo
Your personal archive is your own thing to organize and keep track of. Why should social network do that for you?
In fact, you have bookmarks to choose posts you like for later.

29 May 2024 at 17:57 | Open on masturbated.one
Dr. Quadragon ❌ replied to BigFoxBoss

@BigFoxBoss Because a blog is a type of personal archive - a journal, a diary.

We discussed it the other day in the cryptography museum, it was a nice talk.

@mittorn @mo

29 May 2024 at 18:00 | Open on mastodon.ml
mittorn replied to Dr. Quadragon ❌
Dr. Quadragon ❌ replied to mittorn

@mittorn Microblog is a type of blog. And Fediverse is not only microblogs, it accomodates all media.

(and yes, I'm toying with an idea of making a book based on the entirety of my or whoever else's posts around here)

@BigFoxBoss @mo

29 May 2024 at 18:02 | Open on mastodon.ml
BigFoxBoss replied to Dr. Quadragon ❌

@drq @mittorn @mo
Blogs and microblogs are fundamentally different.
Blogs are focused on longer articles, focusing on the substance of the post.
Microblogs are focused on what's in the moment (insert joke about someone constantly sharing when they pooped last time).
Therefore, UI/UX is completely different on those.
Blogs accentuate an article, comments are at the bottom.
Microblogs put original post and replies on equal ground and visual weight.
Navigating a blog full of substance and focused discussion of the post is much easier than scrolling through a million of tiny ass posts and through copious amounts of random memes on someone else's page.

@drq @mittorn @mo
Blogs and microblogs are fundamentally different.
Blogs are focused on longer articles, focusing on the substance of the post.
Microblogs are focused on what's in the moment (insert joke about someone constantly sharing when they pooped last time).
Therefore, UI/UX is completely different on those.

29 May 2024 at 18:09 | Open on masturbated.one
mittorn replied to Dr. Quadragon ❌

@drq @BigFoxBoss @mo but really, fedi is not notekeeping. Even messenger is, but not fedi.
This is because i can search messenger history as linear timeline, but searching fedi timeline is almost impossible. And very sparse federation makes it even more difficult. No, fedi is just conversation now, not notekeeping. Instances dying, instances bans scrappers, fedi users often deletes account (or it's gets deleted somehow due to bug in implementation)
And some users do not want data left after account deleted. No, it is completely not about notekeeping...

@drq @BigFoxBoss @mo but really, fedi is not notekeeping. Even messenger is, but not fedi.
This is because i can search messenger history as linear timeline, but searching fedi timeline is almost impossible. And very sparse federation makes it even more difficult. No, fedi is just conversation now, not notekeeping. Instances dying, instances bans scrappers, fedi users often deletes account (or it's gets deleted somehow due to bug in implementation)

29 May 2024 at 17:57 | Open on masturbated.one
Dr. Quadragon ❌ replied to mittorn

@mittorn By your metric, nothing is, because everything (literally everything) is impermanent, and prone to degradation as time goes on.

@BigFoxBoss @mo

29 May 2024 at 18:01 | Open on mastodon.ml
mittorn replied to Dr. Quadragon ❌

@drq @BigFoxBoss @mo but microblogging is not really useful for notekeeping because of timelines with big amount of small posts and fedi is more not useful because it is much volatile (disappearing instances, removing users).
For notekeeping we need change p2p federation model to allow not only fetch posts from original instance, but search and fetch posts cache for other instances, allowing distributed storage of dead instances data. And even add searching support to federation (maybe like dc++ search), not only searching original posts. But this is not fedi users to want. I think, most instances will be against such search. Fedi is not global db. It's just place for discussions and memes.

@drq @BigFoxBoss @mo but microblogging is not really useful for notekeeping because of timelines with big amount of small posts and fedi is more not useful because it is much volatile (disappearing instances, removing users).
For notekeeping we need change p2p federation model to allow not only fetch posts from original instance, but search and fetch posts cache for other instances, allowing distributed storage of dead instances data. And even add...

29 May 2024 at 18:08 | Open on masturbated.one
Dr. Quadragon ❌ replied to BigFoxBoss

@BigFoxBoss

> Obsidian was made specifically for that purpose. Fedi was not

At this point, I'm not interested in "what it was made for" but "what else can it do" or "what else we can do with it". And I see very curious things if you change things up a lil bit.

@mittorn @mo

29 May 2024 at 18:17 | Open on mastodon.ml
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