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PassKeys seem like a bad idea. Google backs them up to the cloud, so if your Google account is compromised then all your private keys are compromised. I don't see how that's an improvement over password+2FA at all.

Now security keys I get; keep the private key on an airgapped device. That's good. Hell I even keep my 2FA-OTP salts on a YubiKey.

11 comments
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The funniest part is that no matter how many security factors we use to replace passwords (two factor auth, passkeys, security keys, etc) there's always a backup that's just another password.

john fink ok!! :goat:

@schizanon piece of paper, but not a sticky note, and not anywhere insecure.

Ken Kinder :clubtwit:

@schizanon I struggled with this a lot. I wanted to be able to recover my digital life if itโ€™s just me, standing alone, with none of my worldly possessions (house fire, luggage stolen, whatever).

Ultimately that means cloud. No way around it.

I minimized my risk by using a file-based password manager, and a separately also encrypted e2e sync service. Only I know the password to the file, but a close friend can help me get back into the sync service. (1/2)

Ken Kinder :clubtwit:

The main risk vector would be a malicious payload to the password manager or other software on my computer. (2/2)

Royce Williams

@schizanon There are a couple of exceptions - usually opt-in (like Google's Advanced Protection Program - they make you register a minimum of two security keys, and require active Google intervention to recover if you lock yourself out.)

Magitism

@schizanon I use zero knowledge access. I just make passwords impossible to remember, then reset them with my email every time. Only my email needs to be secure. This is a good plan, right? Right??

Rodion Borisov

@magitism @schizanon In other words... "magic link" but with extra steps.

dexternemrod :qubes:

@schizanon
I see that point and that's the reason why I prefer security keys.
The advantage is that if a service (not the passkey-service) is compromised they don't have your paaskey to try with other services and it's more phishing resistant. But you are right: If the passkey-service is compromises ot the user still only clicks without thinking this does not change a lot.

firefly
Structural security trumps computational security ... or ...
Diffuse structural security trumps amalgamated computational security ...
All your big, strong passkeys in one basket is less secure than your passwords in many individual baskets ...
Trying to explain this to tech bros can resemble pushing a wagon uphill ...
Because they want to sell something, logic is not paramount.

See here:

https://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2023-September/038186.html

"A password in my brain is generally safer than an app or SMS stream that can be compromised. Although a passphrase may in some cases not be computationally more secure than a token mechanism or two-factor sytem, the simple passphrase is often _structurally_ more secure because that passphrase only links to and exposes one service target."

and here:

https://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2023-September/038188.html

"I like to compare it to having one basket of eggs in one spot, and many baskets of eggs in many places. If your one basket of eggs has the master key to all the other stronger keys, is it easier to get the one basket, or the many baskets with weaker keys? So in this scenario cipher strength is not the most important factor for security. With a single basket one fox or pick-pocket or one search warrant can own all of your eggs for all your services."


Structural security trumps computational security ... or ...
Diffuse structural security trumps amalgamated computational security ...
All your big, strong passkeys in one basket is less secure than your passwords in many individual baskets ...
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