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AT-AT Assault :verifiedtrans:

@InkomTech @jlsigman @martin_piper @ben

You'd need to sue basically every single corporation ever that does its own coding, as I GUARANTEE you that they all have code an engineer got from Stack Overflow.

13 comments
D2

@atatassault @jlsigman @martin_piper @ben you’re missing the β€˜this is an unauthorized use of material I wrote and therefore retain copyright of’. Folks reading SO != AI training, just like theaters and dvds!= streaming revenue.

AT-AT Assault :verifiedtrans:

@InkomTech @jlsigman @martin_piper @ben

People reading and using code from SO by mouse and keyboard is not conceptually or mechanically different than using a computer to automatically do it.

D2

@atatassault @jlsigman @martin_piper @ben I could agree with you, but then we’d both be wrong. Again, a clickthru license isn’t remotely strong enough to strip someone of their ownership. Copyright is a motherfucker. Over and over, creatives have clawed back IP and forced a renegotiation due to new media, new venues, new uses.

AT-AT Assault :verifiedtrans:

@InkomTech @jlsigman @martin_piper @ben

So you gonna be the one to sue every single corporation? Because they all use SO code. Because people are lazy.

D2

@atatassault @jlsigman @martin_piper @ben SMH. read what I wrote again. Peer forum use is a different use. While that would likely survive as released by acceptance of the TOS, new uses of copyright (AI training) likely won’t.

D2 replied to D2

@atatassault @jlsigman @martin_piper @ben odds seem high that you don’t understand copyright. Good luck coming up to speed on it; my responses aren’t for you, but so anyone understanding copyright law can evaluate / discuss the risks in investing in this AI land grab and of SO’s move. Good luck.

Martin Piper (he/him) πŸ’™πŸ’›πŸŒ»πŸ’‰ replied to D2

@InkomTech @atatassault @jlsigman @ben I understand it better than you obviously don't. You don't own your public posts on such a website, the company does.

Ahto!

@atatassault @InkomTech @jlsigman @martin_piper @ben

For the most part, if people are using code from SO, they probably should be providing some attribution to it within their own code base. How that is licensed and used is another discussion.

For the original poster's issue, I think SO is riding a pretty dangerous line around how they have repurposed someone's comment regardless of its affiliation with OpenAI now. This could cause problems around DMCA's safe harbour clause and their own protection. However, their actions towards this user alone are pretty scummy and not only sets a precedent that people shouldn't trust them but that they actually abusive towards their users.

In relation to AI and scraping of data, to allow such actions to be accepted and made legal would then bring the whole concept of ownership into question and one I don't think I want to traverse.

As for "Are you gonna sue every single corporation?" rhetoric.

While I understand the cynicism, I believe it is fine for people to make it clear when a corporation has done something reprehensible especially when it is clear when that it is the case. This is one of those cases and people distrusting how data is gathered and not even attributed is also reprehensible.

I think it is probably better to encourage people to form some collective and lobby for changes while potentially going after said corporations when they do scummy acts or steal that group's work.

@atatassault @InkomTech @jlsigman @martin_piper @ben

For the most part, if people are using code from SO, they probably should be providing some attribution to it within their own code base. How that is licensed and used is another discussion.

For the original poster's issue, I think SO is riding a pretty dangerous line around how they have repurposed someone's comment regardless of its affiliation with OpenAI now. This could cause problems around DMCA's safe harbour clause and their own protection....

Martin Piper (he/him) πŸ’™πŸ’›πŸŒ»πŸ’‰

@InkomTech @atatassault @jlsigman @ben it's not a click through license when you have an account. It does does mean they own the technical content of the posts and can do what they like with it.

Nasado replied to Martin Piper (he/him) πŸ’™πŸ’›πŸŒ»πŸ’‰

@martin_piper @InkomTech @atatassault @jlsigman @ben In other posts in this thread, specifically mastodon.social/@martin_piper/ , you correctly cite the relevant section of SO's Terms of Service to establish that nobody can revoke the permissions they granted to Stack Exchange Inc. Unfortunately, it seems you were only skimming, since you missed the part before that where they establish what those permissions are:

> You agree that any and all content [...] that you provide to the public Network (collectively, β€œSubscriber Content”), is perpetually and irrevocably licensed to Stack Overflow on a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive basis pursuant to Creative Commons licensing terms (CC BY-SA 4.0),

Now, since you're the copyright expert here, kindly explain how it is that Stack Exchange Inc "owns" the content if it is bound by a license. Who would enforce that license? Who would be paid damages if the license were violated?

@martin_piper @InkomTech @atatassault @jlsigman @ben In other posts in this thread, specifically mastodon.social/@martin_piper/ , you correctly cite the relevant section of SO's Terms of Service to establish that nobody can revoke the permissions they granted to Stack Exchange Inc. Unfortunately, it seems you were only skimming, since you missed the part before that where they establish what those permissions are:

D2

@atatassault @jlsigman @martin_piper @ben let me amend: the strongest way a creative person can lose copyright: work for hire.

I ain’t never gotten paid by SO. What I write remains mine.

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