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Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

TL;DR when EU law references a harmonised standard, that standard MUST be made available to every citizen of the EU. For free. As it is considered to be part of the law. And thus public interest is a given.

I CANNOT OVERSTATE HOW BIG THIS DECISION OF EUCJ IS!

Press release:
curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/do

Decision text:
curia.europa.eu/juris/document

43 comments
Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

@honze_net If it is referenced as harmonised standard in EU law or regulations — yes. While the decision in this case is narrow as it is about 4 specific standards concerning toys and chemicals, it makes general statements on the connection between free access to law and referenced standards, so it should be a valid argument when EU law exists that references ISO 27001 as a harmonised standard.

Andreas Hontzia

@jwildeboer This is very good. Every citizen should be able to read those documents! Thanks for sharing!

Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

@honze_net The list of harmonised standards can be found at single-market-economy.ec.europ If and in which one ISO27001 is specifically mentioned — that I don't know as I didn't check.

Sebastian

@jwildeboer @leyrer
I'm afraid you're(/we're )🔩ed.

"A harmonised standard is a European standard developed by a recognised European Standards Organisation: CEN, CENELEC, or ETSI."

Sadly, the ISO-fish (and others) won't care what the european forest animals decide.

Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

@snaeqe @leyrer I specifically said harmonised standards throughout as I am very aware of that difference.

Jeroen Postma

@honze_net @jwildeboer This was already enforced by law though, and this decision seems to be about a case where adhering to the standard was required by law. So there's an explicit reference, hence the standard should be open.

ISO 27001 practices are not required by law, it's most often a requirement of – and regulated by – industry partners. So there's no explicit reference that will open the standard to the public.

Jeroen Postma

@honze_net @jwildeboer Addendum: I just considered that I may be confusing EU law with Dutch laws, where this was already implemented like this here.

If that's the case then applying it EU wide certainly seems great!

Nico Rikken

@honze_net
Had a similar question about ISO/IEC standards in this regard, especially as they aren't developed under the governance of the EU. As far as I know ISO27001 isn't referred to in law and so no requirements to make public. Would be interesting if somebody makes a similar case for standards referred to in procurement. I recall in Netherlands we already had some standards public because they were referred in the law.
@jwildeboer

Pelle Wessman

@jwildeboer So that essentially narrows down which standards the EU can adopt and force it to invent new standards?

Matt Palmer

@voxpelli @jwildeboer I'd hope that it'll encourage SDOs to consider whether they want their standards to be broadly adopted, and if so, to stop gating them behind paywalls. Although if they don't, the EU can develop and release alternatives, which one can hope will drive the rent seekers out of business.

Pelle Wessman

@womble @jwildeboer As long as we don’t end up with like a ESB/European Serial Bus standard instead of a global USB standard

Kevin Karhan :verified:

@jwildeboer unfortunately, this has yet to be enforced...

Cc: @stman

Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

@kkarhan @stman It was enforced with this decision for 4 harmonised standards. So there now is a precedent. That’s how this works …

Kevin Karhan :verified:

@jwildeboer @stman I do really hope this will get enforced retroactively to everything sooner than later...

Cuz #paywalling of #Standards is inherently bad - espechally if they are mandated, and it's high time that got de-jure said so!

md

@jwildeboer i concur, that‘s a big one. Now we need to get rid of the nonfree standards one by one

Patrick H. Lauke

@jwildeboer now i want to see ETSI forced to publish the EN standard as actual linkable, referenceable HTML and not just PDF...

Golda

@jwildeboer honestly it took be by surprise that legally enforced standards were/are *not* public! sounds like this decision was overdue!

CCC Freiburg

@jwildeboer does this include laws with something like "nach dem aktuellen Stand der Technik" (in regards of actual technical standards) - which does not mention any standard beside it has to be actual?

vinzv

@jwildeboer I tried to understand the benefits for citizens but miserable failed. Can you explain, maybe with some daily life example, how this would affect citizens?

Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

@vinzv Just read the court decision? They give good reasons in there. Example: how can citizens check if a product fulfils the requirements set by a harmonised standard without having access to the standard? Etc.

vinzv

@jwildeboer Ah, thanks. I was thinking in the area of technical standards, maybe under the impression of HDMI vs AMD recently.

Elias Mårtenson

@jwildeboer if I read the decision correctly, they did not say this? The judgement only invalidates the previous decisions. So they could make the same decisions again, just with a different justification?

Andy Linton ✅

@jwildeboer When you say "every citizen" does that apply to citizens living outside the EU? For example in Aotearoa New Zealand?

Justinas Dūdėnas

@jwildeboer your message sounds grand, but the documents literally speak of toys..

Thomas Depierre

@justinas @jwildeboer Funnily enough, toys for kids are one of the driving force behind regulation and safety standards. It is a problem that nearly everyone agree on, that get quite controversial in the details and that is hellishly hard to get right. Don't sleep on toys.

Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

@justinas The decision establishes a precedent. This precedent can now be used to enforce the principle in other areas too.

hazelnot :yell:

@jwildeboer @justinas doesn't precedent only apply for common law systems?

jn

@jwildeboer great move, i hope country governments (such as germany) follow suit

Kahanis
@jwildeboer i can see that this decision is about specific safety standards, does it automatically apply to wvery other standard, or does it just set precendent for further lawsuits?
Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

Some clarifications after a day of comments and more details:

Please really read and understand what I am saying.

- This is about Harmonised Standards [1], a group of standards created by CEN, CENELEC, ETSI on request of the commission. So this is NOT about all ISO standards.

- The decision sets a precedent for all harmonised standards to be made freely available by deciding on 4 specific standards where it is recognised that public interest is more important.

[1] single-market-economy.ec.europ

Some clarifications after a day of comments and more details:

Please really read and understand what I am saying.

- This is about Harmonised Standards [1], a group of standards created by CEN, CENELEC, ETSI on request of the commission. So this is NOT about all ISO standards.

- The decision sets a precedent for all harmonised standards to be made freely available by deciding on 4 specific standards where it is recognised that public interest is more important.

Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

The reasons given by the court give a lot of leeway to argue that public interest outweighs protection rights in many more cases and IMHO it hints at that being the default going forward.

katzenberger

@jwildeboer This is huge. I have hopes this is a first step towards opening the door to further legal action by other parties, so that also purely national standards will become freely available to those wo are expected to comply with them

For instance, as a #car driver in #Germany I have to carry an emergency kit that conforms to "#DIN 13164". I can buy a ready-made kit, but I can neither verify it actually does, nor assemble one of my own - unless I pay 49.20€ for a PDF download of that norm

kiviheimo

@jwildeboer I bet quite many engineering companies are happy!
Get the logic, because even national laws are e.g. requiring to comply with EN 13480 for metallic piping and all the separate parties are now buying their own versions of the harmonized standard.

Peter Bindels

@jwildeboer Can we get HDMI 2.1 into an EU law as a standard TV connector?

ave 🐀

@jwildeboer citizen or resident:

> ‘1. Any citizen of the [European] Union, and any natural or legal person residing or having its registered office in a Member State, has a right of access to documents of the institutions, subject to the principles, conditions and limits defined in this Regulation.

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