@sertonix @dalias @leftpaddotpy @dysfun yes, we all agree that seatd is better.

that was never the point. i have never said systemd is architecturally correct.

i just ponder if this is the issue that we need to focus on, considering we have been trying to replace openrc for years and have not made any tangible progress on doing so.

the graphical environments have, in large part, chosen to follow the systemd APIs.

the implementations of those APIs we provide are largely based on extricated code from old versions of systemd which are not kept up to date with the newer APIs requested by the graphical environments.

therefore, given that we are sinking resources into keeping these stub implementations going, and the stub implementations are deficient, which requires further hacking around at the graphical environment level to keep things working, one must ponder whether it is worth the resource cost to keep openrc (itself barely maintained) and the various forms of extricated systemd code (ranging from not maintained to barely maintained) alive.

how does alpine benefit from this effort, which takes a lot of effort and results in a suboptimal user experience in many cases?

is the benefit that we can say “we don’t use systemd, we’re proud of that”? and if so, how does that talking point make alpine better? because we don’t use systemd? a silly and circular argument, i think.

it is like the people who are upset that X is losing maintainer interest while Wayland is gaining maintainer interest. but they aren’t interested in stepping up and doing the work to keep X as a viable alternative.

the anti-systemd crowd offers the same flavor of argument: here is a bunch of random projects stitched together, and while it works for the proposer, it is more like a 60% solution rather than the 100% solution the proposer sells it as.

oh, you can just avoid systemd with these little tricks! nevermind that when you do that, half the control panel settings in Plasma and GNOME don’t work, because the systemd APIs they call via dbus are just stubbed out.

an interesting observation in this thread is that nobody has advocated to keep openrc. but i have heard about all sorts of projects included in the systemd monorepo that we would never actually use, like systemd-boot or resolved.

interesting that.