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Top-level
 Finally, it's informative to look at what people who lived under communism feel now that they got a taste of capitalism have to say now. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2010/04/28/hungary-better-off-under-communism/ https://balkaninsight.com/2010/12/24/for-simon-poll-serbians-unsure-who-runs-their-country/ 17 comments
@yogthos USSR nostalgia doesnāt necessarily mean return to the old Soviet days, as per the Moscow Times article. I think Russia can do better without an oppressive centralized government but thatās just my opinion as a Canadian @rodroidrx right, it's important to keep in mind that USSR was under duress its entire existence. It was invaded by capitalist powers in 1918 only a year after its formation, then it was plunged into WW2 a couple of decades later, and then US started the Cold War after. USSR was never allowed to develop in peace. Vast majority of negative aspects of USSR can be traced directly to the fact that it was under siege. @rodroidrx @yogthos Context is the king. People had access to education, but had to follow the state ātruthsā otherwise were persecuted. Nobody worried about losing their job, because it was illegal to not work. The Soviet Union achieved a thing or two, but the *how* and the amount of suffering they caused completely negates that. We have a saying in the Czech Republic: āSe SovÄtskĆ½m Svazem pÅiÅ”la bĆda na zemā - Soviet Union brought poverty to us all. And thatās how it was. @jirijerabek @rodroidrx anti communists love to spin this yarn, but of course when you look at the conditions prior and post USSR it's pretty clear that everything you've said is utter nonsense. The fact of the matter is that there is far more suffering under capitalism than there ever was in the Soviet Union. However, people like you don't care about that because you've got yours and fuck everyone else. @yogthos @jirijerabek fair objections from both your point of views. However, in the end communism crumbled. China is barely a communist nation its more autocratic / capitalist under the disguise of communism. Of course, contending views will argue the West was responsible for political interference, etc etc, ultimately leading to the fall of communism- but why then wasnāt the USSR robust enough to outmaneuver the Wests meddling? @yogthos I canāt comment on who started what or why the Cold War persisted the way it did, thatās debatable. I can say that USSR did develop a world ending arsenal and this was perceived by US as a threat. So one nation under duress is questionable. With two nuclear powers in frequent confrontation the entire world was under duress. @rodroidrx it's not debatable who started the Cold War. The fact that it was the west is a well documented fact. US was also the first country to develop nuclear weapons and use them on civilian population of Japan to send a message to the Soviet Union. Meanwhile, USSR always tried to come to treaties to disarm and deescalate, the west was never interested. Highly recommend watching this documentary https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1494191/ @rodroidrx I grew up in USSR, and I live in Canada today. I think that the central government was far more functional than the Canadian system. Especially so when it comes to delivering large public infrastructure projects. Of course, nobody is advocating for simply restoring USSR exactly as it was. I think it should be used to inform what's done in the future taking the good aspects and improving the bad. #Capitalism is obviously broken. Your thread reminds me of the Minneapolis #ACAB saying #GeorgeFloyd had a medical condition. Capitalism is not inherently better than everything else, it simply is in the business of killing off competitors. @yogthos to be completely honest Iām socialist to the core. But the engine that drives socialism in Canada is unfortunately capitalism. A functioning government is arguable too. Our system is less than perfect, with many obvious gaps that need to be filled, but for the most part itās working. Again, pros and cons. Canadaās system isnāt a one size fits all solution but it is popular and provides a status quo (if not better) quality of life to many that live here. @rodroidrx Canada doesn't have socialism. Socialism fundamentally means worker control of the means of production and the economy. Canada is capitalist to the core, where the capital owning class owns everything. Socialism doesn't mean just having a social safety net. This is a very good explanation of the actual meaning of the term @yogthos Hey, I vaguely recall seeing like 10 years back a poll or something where they asked the question: "Would you want the USSR back as it was". Or something like that. And it had results for like all of the Eastern Europaea nations. Would be nice to add to this. But I was never able to find it. The closest thing I found was this. @IAmAClaesAndIhateIt oh thanks, that's a handy poll as well, I find it's also interesting how polls are always conducted in European parts of USSR closer to the west, things got a lot worse in southern and eastern parts. |
Gregory's Server
@yogthos USSR although great, and benefitted many regular folk, it came at a cost of Russian freedom and subsequent isolation from the rest of the world. Not to mention all the tensions brought on by the Cold War. Pros and cons I guess.
Great thread though. Very informative thanks!