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Yogthos

In 1987, people in the USSR could retire with pension at 55 (female) and 60 (male) while receiving 50% of their wages at a at minimum. Meanwhile, in USA the average retirement age was 62-67 and the average (not median) retiree household in the USA could expect $48k/yr which comes out to 65% of the 74k average (not median) household income in 2016:

ilo.org/public/libdoc/ilo/1994
cbsnews.com/news/could-you-get

22 Dec 2022 at 21:37 | Open on mas.to
29 comments
Yogthos replied to Yogthos

GDP took off after socialism was established and then collapsed with the reintroduction of capitalism:
22 Dec 2022 at 21:40 | Open on mas.to
Yogthos replied to Yogthos

The Soviet Union had the highest physician/patient ratio in the world. USSR had 42 doctors per 10,000 population compared to 24 in Denmark and Sweden, and 19 in US:

sci-hub.se/http://www.scienced

22 Dec 2022 at 21:41 | Open on mas.to
Yogthos replied to Yogthos
Yogthos replied to Yogthos

Professor of Economic History, Robert C. Allen, concludes in his study without the 1917 revolution is directly responsible for rapid growth that made the achievements listed above possilbe: citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/

Study demonstrating the steady increase in quality of life during the Soviet period (including under Stalin). Includes the fact that Soviet life expectancy grew faster than any other nation recorded at the time:

jstor.org/stable/2672986?seq=1

Professor of Economic History, Robert C. Allen, concludes in his study without the 1917 revolution is directly responsible for rapid growth that made the achievements listed above possilbe: citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/

Study demonstrating the steady increase in quality of life during the Soviet period (including under Stalin). Includes the fact that Soviet life expectancy grew faster than any other nation recorded at the time:

22 Dec 2022 at 21:42 | Open on mas.to
Yogthos replied to Yogthos

A large study using world bank data analyzing the quality of life in Capitalist vs Socialist countries and finds overwhelmingly at similar levels of development with socialism bringing better quality of life:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/

This study compared capitalist and socialist countries in measures of the physical quality of life (PQL), taking into account the level of economic development.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/243090

22 Dec 2022 at 21:42 | Open on mas.to
Yogthos replied to Yogthos
rodroidrx 🇨🇦 replied to Yogthos

@yogthos USSR although great, and benefitted many regular folk, it came at a cost of Russian freedom and subsequent isolation from the rest of the world. Not to mention all the tensions brought on by the Cold War. Pros and cons I guess.

Great thread though. Very informative thanks!

22 Dec 2022 at 22:05 | Open on mas.to
rodroidrx 🇨🇦 replied to Yogthos

@yogthos USSR nostalgia doesn’t necessarily mean return to the old Soviet days, as per the Moscow Times article. I think Russia can do better without an oppressive centralized government but that’s just my opinion as a Canadian

22 Dec 2022 at 22:11 | Open on mas.to
Yogthos replied to rodroidrx

@rodroidrx right, it's important to keep in mind that USSR was under duress its entire existence. It was invaded by capitalist powers in 1918 only a year after its formation, then it was plunged into WW2 a couple of decades later, and then US started the Cold War after.

USSR was never allowed to develop in peace. Vast majority of negative aspects of USSR can be traced directly to the fact that it was under siege.

22 Dec 2022 at 22:39 | Open on mas.to
Yogthos replied to Yogthos

@rodroidrx Yet, despite that people were much more free than people living in the west today in many respects.

For example, nobody in USSR worried about losing their job and ending up on the street or that they wouldn't be able to retire in dignity.

Nobody was worried about becoming homeless or not being able to afford the basics.

Everyone had access to education, and was able to pursue their interests without worrying whether they're marketable. Here's one example:

youtube.com/watch?v=SWqvaMEFId

@rodroidrx Yet, despite that people were much more free than people living in the west today in many respects.

For example, nobody in USSR worried about losing their job and ending up on the street or that they wouldn't be able to retire in dignity.

Nobody was worried about becoming homeless or not being able to afford the basics.

22 Dec 2022 at 22:41 | Open on mas.to
Jiri Jerabek replied to Yogthos

@rodroidrx @yogthos Context is the king.

People had access to education, but had to follow the state ‘truths’ otherwise were persecuted.

Nobody worried about losing their job, because it was illegal to not work.

The Soviet Union achieved a thing or two, but the *how* and the amount of suffering they caused completely negates that.

We have a saying in the Czech Republic: “Se Sovětským Svazem přišla bída na zem” - Soviet Union brought poverty to us all.

And that’s how it was.

25 Dec 2022 at 23:11 | Open on c.im
Yogthos replied to Jiri

@jirijerabek @rodroidrx anti communists love to spin this yarn, but of course when you look at the conditions prior and post USSR it's pretty clear that everything you've said is utter nonsense.

The fact of the matter is that there is far more suffering under capitalism than there ever was in the Soviet Union. However, people like you don't care about that because you've got yours and fuck everyone else.

25 Dec 2022 at 23:35 | Open on mas.to
rodroidrx 🇨🇦 replied to Yogthos

@yogthos @jirijerabek fair objections from both your point of views. However, in the end communism crumbled. China is barely a communist nation its more autocratic / capitalist under the disguise of communism.

Of course, contending views will argue the West was responsible for political interference, etc etc, ultimately leading to the fall of communism- but why then wasn’t the USSR robust enough to outmaneuver the Wests meddling?

26 Dec 2022 at 4:47 | Open on mas.to
rodroidrx 🇨🇦 replied to Yogthos

@yogthos I can’t comment on who started what or why the Cold War persisted the way it did, that’s debatable. I can say that USSR did develop a world ending arsenal and this was perceived by US as a threat. So one nation under duress is questionable. With two nuclear powers in frequent confrontation the entire world was under duress.

23 Dec 2022 at 5:05 | Open on mas.to
Yogthos replied to rodroidrx

@rodroidrx it's not debatable who started the Cold War. The fact that it was the west is a well documented fact. US was also the first country to develop nuclear weapons and use them on civilian population of Japan to send a message to the Soviet Union.

Meanwhile, USSR always tried to come to treaties to disarm and deescalate, the west was never interested.

Highly recommend watching this documentary imdb.com/title/tt1494191/

23 Dec 2022 at 13:12 | Open on mas.to
Yogthos replied to rodroidrx

@rodroidrx I grew up in USSR, and I live in Canada today. I think that the central government was far more functional than the Canadian system. Especially so when it comes to delivering large public infrastructure projects.

Of course, nobody is advocating for simply restoring USSR exactly as it was. I think it should be used to inform what's done in the future taking the good aspects and improving the bad.

22 Dec 2022 at 22:44 | Open on mas.to
Real Quack replied to Yogthos

@yogthos @rodroidrx

#Capitalism is obviously broken.

Your thread reminds me of the Minneapolis #ACAB saying #GeorgeFloyd had a medical condition.

Capitalism is not inherently better than everything else, it simply is in the business of killing off competitors.

23 Dec 2022 at 2:53 | Open on union.place
Yogthos replied to Real
rodroidrx 🇨🇦 replied to Yogthos

@yogthos to be completely honest I’m socialist to the core. But the engine that drives socialism in Canada is unfortunately capitalism. A functioning government is arguable too. Our system is less than perfect, with many obvious gaps that need to be filled, but for the most part it’s working. Again, pros and cons. Canada’s system isn’t a one size fits all solution but it is popular and provides a status quo (if not better) quality of life to many that live here.

23 Dec 2022 at 5:23 | Open on mas.to
Yogthos replied to rodroidrx

@rodroidrx Canada doesn't have socialism. Socialism fundamentally means worker control of the means of production and the economy. Canada is capitalist to the core, where the capital owning class owns everything.

Socialism doesn't mean just having a social safety net. This is a very good explanation of the actual meaning of the term

versobooks.com/blogs/3228-leni

23 Dec 2022 at 13:20 | Open on mas.to
Yogthos replied to Yogthos

@rodroidrx
also, our system is absolutely not working. Over half the population has no savings indicating that they're being paid subsistence wages.

Meanwhile, just 87 families own more wealth than around half of the population of Canada. These people have become rich by exploiting the rest of the population, and that's who benefits from all your hard work.

The wealth gap only keeps growing with each generation. This isn't sustainable.

globalnews.ca/news/3434447/ove

theguardian.com/world/2018/jul

@rodroidrx
also, our system is absolutely not working. Over half the population has no savings indicating that they're being paid subsistence wages.

Meanwhile, just 87 families own more wealth than around half of the population of Canada. These people have become rich by exploiting the rest of the population, and that's who benefits from all your hard work.

23 Dec 2022 at 13:21 | Open on mas.to
Claesian replied to Yogthos

@yogthos Hey, I vaguely recall seeing like 10 years back a poll or something where they asked the question: "Would you want the USSR back as it was". Or something like that. And it had results for like all of the Eastern Europaea nations. Would be nice to add to this. But I was never able to find it. The closest thing I found was this.
news.gallup.com/poll/166538/fo

22 Mar 2023 at 11:27 | Open on mastodon.art
Yogthos replied to Claesian

@IAmAClaesAndIhateIt oh thanks, that's a handy poll as well, I find it's also interesting how polls are always conducted in European parts of USSR closer to the west, things got a lot worse in southern and eastern parts.

22 Mar 2023 at 12:22 | Open on mas.to
Vitaliy Berdinskikh replied to Yogthos

@yogthos your article about the emergency service. These "doctors" didn't treat patients but drove them to the hospital. In the hospital a patient waited to the morning of workday when another real doctor diagnosed and prescribed treatment.

22 Dec 2022 at 21:58 | Open on mas.to
Santiago replied to Yogthos

@yogthos the GDP plot is very interesting. It shows a downward trend in the 90s and after that, upwards again emulating the soviet era, any ideas to which historical events is that caused by?

22 Dec 2022 at 23:09 | Open on mastodon.uy
Yogthos replied to Santiago

@santiago the downward trend was basically the economic shock therapy of mass privatization, and the stabilization is when there started being more state control over the industry again.

Incidentally, Russian economy today is largely state owned and centrally planned, except now all the benefits of that go into the pockets of the oligarchs.

22 Dec 2022 at 23:25 | Open on mas.to
[DATA EXPUNGED]
Ruĝa Libereco ☭ replied to Yogthos

@yogthos Now in capitalist Russia the retirement age for women is 60 years, and for men 65 years. At the same time, against the backdrop of deteriorating living standards, many simply do not live up to retirement, and those who do survive on $150 a month. At the same time, the repression apparatus became tougher than it was in the Soviet Union, although this is one of the main reasons for criticizing the USSR in Russia.

23 Dec 2022 at 5:01 | Open on mastodon.ml
Yogthos replied to Ruĝa Libereco ☭

@ldrngmtv also shit like this, like I wonder what happened around 1991 there

sputniknews.com/20070214/60721
23 Dec 2022 at 13:08 | Open on mas.to
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