@Gargron Normally I know, when I want to speak to audience and when I want to talk to a person. I do not like these kind of judgments. But it's your SW, I am only user.

@Gargron good choice. That feature was easily one of the most significant contributors of toxic behavior on Twitter

@Gargron Excellent. As a recent migrant I keep getting the urge to quote-toot, but I’m realizing the many ways that quote tweeting has contributed to the hellish and abusive environment of Twitter. Thank you.

@Gargron rip to me. I used that feature to add description to why I would retweet something to add value to it.

@Gargron Would you reconsider this thought? It's a nice feature.

@Gargron

Seems sensible.

Contrast the other place, where people have the option to block replies (PPE against toxicity), but not to block QT (Elimination of toxicity).

@Gargron Yet another reason found why quoting is actually a useful feature:

When I have a toot in a different language, it would be great to quote the original toot as a reference.
Starting a discussion in a completely different language within the existing thread makes no sense and is just annoying people.

@Gargron it does reduce the performative aspect of quote tweeting. Something we've all be prone to!, but talking to someone is hard more significant.

@Gargron I’ll probably be adding quotes to our fork of mastodon since it’s simply too useful when it comes to showing support between users. The benefits outweigh the downsides for us =w=

@Gargron I always added my take when QTing and you're right – that's performative, not a discussion. Never thought about it this way!

@Gargron very different thought for lots of newcomers, but I'll give it a chance.

@Gargron Makes perfect sense now I think about it. I think it is what helps make this platform what it is

@Gargron lame.

@Gargron Too bad. I just wanted a great Toot booster with the phrase "a good one". For something like that, quotes are still great.

@Gargron I'd quote-toot this if I could

@Gargron late to the party, but excellent decision 👏👏

@Gargron That's interesting

@Gargron I like all the thinking of Eugen

@Gargron I am not sure whether this is a good decision, users who miss this functionality may be less inclined to switch from Twitter to Mastodon or stay here in case the situation at Twitter evens out.

@Gargron Speaking to your audience is an important feature in social spaces and while quoting has its pitfalls, it has immensely good uses in previewing/summarizing content you want your audience to engage in(threads, gofundmes, important announcements, etc). Performativeness, or even dogpiling, will happen regardless of features available.

@Gargron Lol, it's funny you call that 'doing it for good'. I thought that was one of the worst things, spreading toxic tweets for everyone to see with a snarky comment. So much negativity.

I only miss it sometimes when I want to add some context to a tweet about how it relates to my own life or why I find it interesting. Like boosting a tweet about a book and adding what I liked about it. But there are workarounds, I can live with this.

@Gargron

Ааа, так вот почему на Мастодонте нельзя цитировать. Чтобы если уж сраться, так хоть не за глаза.

@Gargron do you plan to revisit this?

For the newbies missing quote-reply: the lack of such a function is in fact a deliberate design feature of Mastodon.

#Newbies #MastoTips #QuoteReply

@Gargron I think that's a great idea.

@Gargron

Boosting seems very friendly

@Gargron How about gifs, though? I always got a kick out of gif responses.

@Gargron Flawless logic. 🫡

@Gargron Thanks for the tip.

@Gargron I guess you can still link to toots if you really want to. A bit of friction in that process isn't a bad thing.

@Gargron I don't agree with you 100% but I totally get where you're coming from.

@Gargron I think a nice compromise would be giving individual users the ability to opt in or opt out of functionality like quote tweets or allowing their posts to be findable by search. Another option would be allowing users to quote their own tweets so we can link related posts visually

@Gargron
Thank-you. This is one of the many subtle design differences that is making my first week here a welcoming experience. Good job.

@Gargron this is a great choice imho. Quote tweeting is like loudly talking trash about someone at a bar right behind their back.

@Gargron please do NOT reconsider this stance from four years ago just because of the Twitter implosion.

This subtle yet hugely consequential difference is one of the lessons that should be learned from Big Socials' destructive, vacuous decisions.

If people want to gossip, they can screenshot, etc. - make them do the work, a second to reconsider. Please don't let that behavior infest the entire pool.

#twittermigration #twitterexodus #twitterexit #fediverse #quotetweet #quotedpostsonmastodon

@Gargron so we have to run a fork is what you're saying.

@Gargron Good for you! Mastodon: the ethical choice.👍🏼🙂

@Gargron I actually never use it like that. I use it to add context to a retweet, to praise amazing work, to say why I like something vs just boosting it. Not having it is a big missing features for me.

@Gargron Wow, you have thought this through - great! You also articulated well some of the reasons quote-posts get on my nerves. All I could think of was, the quoter took over, commandeered the situation. And they made it all about themselves.

@Gargron @IpseDixit okay. Guilty. I shall change my ways. 😬

@Gargron
I had similar thoughts recently. I wanted a quote function, but then I thought about it and about my experience on Twitter. Best not to have than IMO.

@Gargron the main thing I saw it used for on Twitter, was provide the source of information. Something that a lot of people demand if you are going to be "qualified" for any proper debate. Otherwise it's just random people making random claims

@Gargron makes sense 🤗

@Gargron This is way I always begged people to screen shoot, never quote tweet. It was always for naught.

@Gargron and i searched how i quote:-) lol

@Gargron
do you have any data on this ?
Cause I use the quote feature to make sure I am replying accurately, and so that people can see that I am replying accurately

@Gargron 100% that! This was a tool used by toxic ppl with huge following to encourage pile ons.

@Gargron Frankly, I love having the architecture explained to me. It helps understand the nature of this terrific creation. Thank you. And bravo.

@Gargron I feel you are overlooking the usefulness of quotes. I have used quotes on Twitter to qualify WHY the content I was retweeting was worth looking at.
Simply just retweeting content may make people overlook the importance of said content. However, if you retweet content and write a qualifying comment such as "This is a very strong observation, because…" etc., that has real value.
I agree with you, the feature can be abused, but would you not agree almost all features can be abused?

@Gargron

Great argument! Thanks for keeping the culture of Mastodon a priority.

@Gargron Good call. It just feeds into dogpiling

@Gargron originally i thought this was dumb but i’ve since come around and began to appreciate not having QRTs

@Gargron I take your point and thank you. I mostly used quote posts to pick out and highlight quotes from articles that might invite people to read the piece instead of ignoring or skimming over it. Sometimes headlines don’t convey the most important/witty/thought-provoking bits.

@Gargron I was wondering if quote toot exists and found this.

@Gargron wrong decision. Keep collecting feedback

@Gargron You persuaded me. I’ve seen it countless times on the bird site that someone quoting a tweet with a comment like “look at this awful post/person”

After reading your toot, I felt that such quote-retweet might be adding toxicity. If one saw something disgusting, the better way maybe muting or blocking, instead of spreading it with quoting.

Thank you for your explanation for why you’re against this function. And thank you for your great work at #Mastodon

@Gargron Just doing a bit of curation. Will delete if annoying!

#Mastodon #MastodonQuoteToot #MastodonQuoteTweet #MastodonDesign #MastodonDocumentation

@Gargron Makes sense.

@Gargron
If one person is the dictator of mastodon (as you appear to be - maybe I am wrong about that ? ) then what is to prevent you fro overruling what people want ?

Citar está feo, pero imposible no es.
Mirad arriba.

@Gargron I agree. Reply to it. Boost it. Or say something original.

@Gargron i kind of like the quote tweets but this is totally convincing. The reasonable uses are fine to sacrifice if it discourages the negative uses.

@Gargron Thanks for banning that. I hate the conversations based on RT + "ironic" comment showing how much better you are than the quoted person.

@Gargron this is probably my single biggest issue with this platform. maybe 10% of quotes get used like that, every other time it's either to boost engagement while providing commentary, to get more people involved in a discussion while not necessarily endorsing (as reposts are often interpreted), or just to ask a question that's too tangential to the original post

quotes don't crush discussion. they promote it.

@Gargron I disagree that quote posting automatically or even frequently leads to toxicity. I have never experienced that on Twitter (but I kept a clean timeline). I think boosting is more invasive: blasting someone they don't follow onto their timeline without any explanation feels rude. I often want to share fun or interesting posts BUT with a little intro or commentary for context. I really miss quote posts.

@Gargron Agreed. Quote tweeting was the single most toxic thing about Twitter, plus it magnifies and platforms stupid. The "dunking" was pervasive and harmful.

@Gargron I disagree, and while I might like my followers to know that I disagree, I very much doubt that you give a crap whether or not I do. Is that toxic? Is that performative?

@Gargron
That, and the fact that all that extra load required to render the post *within* a post en mass is probsbly not a good idea performance wise...
(I don't like how #misskey / #sospbox implements #quote, and have yet to see a good use of the feature. ever.)

Why is it so hard to copy portion of a post + link anyways ?

Ppl are flippin lazy

@Gargron
Thank you. I believe you have made a wise decision.

@Gargron that explains a lot actually. If it’s a bit harder to make nasty comments and ridicule people then most will just be lazy and keep going. Making it easy limits the opportunity to rethink the comment and check your attitude a bit.

@Gargron a lot of the people who seem to want QT the most are very performative on Twitter.

@Gargron @ChrisMayLA6 but you have also used a system that means users don’t see all replies which makes conversations quite disjointed. So how much of this really is about conversation quality ? Could you not just have at feature but the original poster have a a setting “unquotable” the same way they can make their posts unlistable ?

@Gargron most of the people angling for a QT feature are exactly the people that made Twitter such a noxious platform. they don't seem to realize that 'calling out' people en masse by summoning a legion of haters to a single tweet with no context is, in fact, a form of harassment. even when it's done by people you like.

this problem is solved by making ppl screenshot. you still get to offer your criticism and quote the original post, but you no longer have one-click access to a pile-on.

@Gargron ❤️

@Gargron Danke Eugen. Mir fehlt diese Eigenschaft hier nicht und ich bin voll und ganz hinter dir bei dieser Entscheidung. ❤️

@Gargron makes sense. I pretty much blocked anyone who quote tweeted me to argue. It felt like it was never in good faith and was going to result in a pile on.

@Gargron thank you, its unnecessary and a tool of mob harassment. I can't believe people are demanding a tool that only came about 5 yrs ago and has been abused ever since

@Gargron

Cc @adrianus

@Gargron absolutely the right choice. I wanted to quote tweet the other day, but realised exactly what you wrote: I wanted to converse regarding, not add to, the toot. So I replied instead (don't remember if I boosted, but I absolutely could have done that too.)

@Gargron Agreed, please never abandon this policy. WAIT... on second thought, why not put it to a poll? /s 😉 LOL

@Gargron As a migrant, I agree. Just reply, go into discussion. I am only a week here and it’s the best social media experience I ever had, and I had many, since BBS were a thing. No need for quote toots whatsoever.

@Gargron
If it means that much, they can screen capture. In that case some context explaining it should be expected.

@Gargron Good call.

@Gargron yeah but then folks end up screenshotting and using that as a quote post. That’s gonna eat resources on object store. There’s gotta be a middle ground here, maybe implement it similar to a CW? And then allow users to filter it out? We’re gonna see forked client and server implementations even if you don’t like it.

There’s a huge amount of discourse out there now with, in particular, #BIPOC people making what I think is a pretty solid case for uses that are absolutely not toxic.
What’s interesting is that to me, this is in ways no different than quoting a section of an email - pointing out that I’m addressing a specific comment.

https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/99662106175542726

@Gargron there should be a quoting feature. Like anything else it can be used properly or improperly. Abusus non tollit usum.

@Gargron ah ok this the WHY?

@Gargron absolute the best

@Gargron Hear hear! 👏

@Gargron this guy toots 👍

@Gargron I don't get it, but I usually don't understand what people who put apostrophes in words like "thanks" are talking about.

@Gargron 🥂

@Gargron I have to say, I respect this decision.

@Gargron Some of the Twitter accounts I’ve valued the most, like the historian Heather Cox Richardson, could not function without quote tweets. They use them to provide context and commentary while making the source immediately available. There’s got to be ways to manage the dog piling behavior spiral while allowing quoting, at least of accounts/posts that consent to be quoted.

@Gargron I just feel like there has to be a better solution. Not having the ability to bring a conversation to your own followers while adding your own context really limits the reach any conversation can have here. Like, maybe not allowing conversations to ever extend past their initiator is worth the trade-off, but it is a pretty huge trade-off, I think.

@Gargron Thank you x 1000.

@Gargron I agree with your justification. Quoted retoot(?) feature is kind of redundant. It does have the potential of original message being hijacked.