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Martin Ruskov

@inquiline does mastodon have any individual relevance beyond being the largest (and falling) platform on the fediverse? imho, the increasing MAU of misskey and lemmy is what is really relevant. Data from fedidb.org/

28 comments
Can-crisociality πŸ¦€γ€°οΈπŸ₯«

@mapto I don't know; does Mastodon have any relevance? πŸ€” It brought over many tens of thousands of users during the moment/s when people were fleeing Twitter, and was written up in countless news stories then. It is also the subject of a paper I spent many hours experiencing, writing, and editing, to which you're responding, to tell me this topic isn't relevant. Do I have that right?

Can-crisociality πŸ¦€γ€°οΈπŸ₯«

@danhon You are doing the lord's work, Dan, but you know this πŸ™

ophiocephalic 🐍

@inquiline
Getting mansplained on Mastodon about a paper about mansplaining on Mastodon is absolutely perfect. Also, it is necessary for the phrase "intemperate donkeykeeper" to now be enshrined in the lexicon πŸ’―

ophiocephalic 🐍

@inquiline
Just finished reading through, this is an excellent contribution to our understanding of the fedi's potentials and potential limitations in regards to online activism. Though this may fall outside of your definition of lossy, one idea that occurs, in comparison to the twitter experience, is that it and the other capitalist networks also introduce effective lossiness in the form of the algorithm (and more deliberatively, censorship). There were algo-induced Rashomon moments on twitter.

Would agree with your conclusion that activists could be better off in the context of non-centralized network ownership, assuming that further development takes their needs into account. Given sufficient critical mass, a hashtag campaign can achieve its ends under lossy conditions, as they certainly did on twitter; and here, with the fragmentation of moderative ideology and the prospect of a social media purposefully built for community organizing, possibly even more effectively. Lots to think about, great paper!

@inquiline
Just finished reading through, this is an excellent contribution to our understanding of the fedi's potentials and potential limitations in regards to online activism. Though this may fall outside of your definition of lossy, one idea that occurs, in comparison to the twitter experience, is that it and the other capitalist networks also introduce effective lossiness in the form of the algorithm (and more deliberatively, censorship). There were algo-induced Rashomon moments on twitter.

Can-crisociality πŸ¦€γ€°οΈπŸ₯«

@ophiocephalic
Thank you!!

>>the other capitalist networks also introduce effective lossiness in the form of the algorithm (and more deliberatively, censorship)

Yes, IMO this is a really good point and I wouldn't want to overstate the contrast from a user's perspective in particular; tho the mechanisms behind the lossiness differ as you point out. Wish I could add this as a FN!

ophiocephalic 🐍

@inquiline
Appreciate your consideration of that idea! Yes, either way, there are headwinds; but one could argue that it's more favorable terrain for the activist to face the mostly disorderly lossiness of the fedi over the engineered lossiness of, say, a cryptofascist billionaire-owner. As you note, further development pathways will be key (i.e. are we building a space for communities to organize in, or a twitter clone to conquer the world?)

Can-crisociality πŸ¦€γ€°οΈπŸ₯«

@ophiocephalic
>> one could argue that it's more favorable terrain for the activist to face the mostly disorderly lossiness of the fedi over the engineered lossiness of, say, a cryptofascist billionaire-owner

πŸ’― exactly what I conclude too. !

>> are we building a space for communities to organize in, or a twitter clone to conquer the world

And this is also a really good reminder/prompt

ophiocephalic 🐍

@inquiline
TY! BTW, I was in Green Apple the other day and took a hunt for Oil Beach. I didn't find it but it's on my list!

Martin Ruskov

@inquiline Please accept my apologies. I did not consider that my doubt and opinion would be perceived as questioning your deeds or liberties. I did not think that bringing up another metric to the discussion and trying to contextualise it, would be seen as an act of hostility.

To everyone else that commented and gave labels here, I'm sorry and I withdraw with my own observations about the social dynamics exposed here.

Can-crisociality πŸ¦€γ€°οΈπŸ₯«

@mapto Thanks, appreciate it. (This kind of misunderstanding can be modulated a lot by tone & framing that expresses intent. If you'd prefaced your remark with "Interesting paper. Do you think Mastodon itself is already becoming less relevant..." I think it's safe to say the reaction would have been pretty different, because it would have been perceived as conversational, not antagonistic)

Adam Greenfield

@mapto Jesus, dude. You’re really going with this, as your response to that article? Chapeau, I guess. @inquiline

Fifi Lamoura

@adamgreenfield I do kind of love that by the time I go to look at the original offending post you're replying to that the poster has almost always been suspended already! Means I don't know what idiocy or hate they were peddling but that's kind of a perk. @mapto@qoto.org @inquiline

Can-crisociality πŸ¦€γ€°οΈπŸ₯«

@fifilamoura @adamgreenfield It seems a lot of us aren't networked to qoto?? What I can see over here is my instance admins have hidden either the user profile or the domain, but someone else brought this reply to me partly as a meta "can you see this thing" i.e. part of the work the paper is doing. I'm not sure if it would have appeared for me as a regular mention if I hadn't clicked through(?)

Fifi Lamoura

@inquiline I get a 404 error if I click through so it's not just hidden, the poster or post no longer exist (for me at least). @adamgreenfield

Can-crisociality πŸ¦€γ€°οΈπŸ₯«

@fifilamoura @adamgreenfield Ah, maybe they deleted. Still visible here, but maybe bc cached. The mysteries and joys of federation!

Fifi Lamoura

@inquiline I'm also on an instance with very proactive and responsive moderation. @adamgreenfield

Erin Kissane

@inquiline @fifilamoura @adamgreenfield Still there for me, so I believe y’all are defederated

Fifi Lamoura

@kissane Yes, quite likely and one of the reasons I enjoy being on the instance I'm on. @inquiline @adamgreenfield

Can-crisociality πŸ¦€γ€°οΈπŸ₯«

@fifilamoura @adamgreenfield In this case I'm screenshotting in case it disappears, bc it's such a <chef's kiss> of the total Mastodon package lol

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